Comments on: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/ Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:32:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Matthew Landauer http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4227 Matthew Landauer Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:35:40 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4227 @John - thank you from me as well! @John – thank you from me as well!

]]> By: Stephen Collins http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4225 Stephen Collins Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:26:41 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4225 John, well done! The ability for you folk to do this and manage it in spite of it being somewhat unfamiliar shows some light and forward thinking. Thanks for letting us know and nice work. John, well done! The ability for you folk to do this and manage it in spite of it being somewhat unfamiliar shows some light and forward thinking.

Thanks for letting us know and nice work.

]]> By: John Sheridan http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4222 John Sheridan Thu, 10 Sep 2009 00:39:01 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4222 Matthew's submission has now been posted as originally proposed. We have learnt a useful lesson - which is a good thing, isn't it? Matthew’s submission has now been posted as originally proposed. We have learnt a useful lesson – which is a good thing, isn’t it?

]]> By: Stephen Collins http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4220 Stephen Collins Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:58:05 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4220 While I get the risk control issues the Taskforce Secretariat (note it's not the Taskforce members) are trying to manage, it's this sort of inability to deal with something outside the carefully framed bounds of "the way we do things" that gets us all to realise that parts of the public sector aren't yet where the rest of the world are. I wonder what the Kiwis would have done with code from say, their hackfest a couple of weeks back... While I get the risk control issues the Taskforce Secretariat (note it’s not the Taskforce members) are trying to manage, it’s this sort of inability to deal with something outside the carefully framed bounds of “the way we do things” that gets us all to realise that parts of the public sector aren’t yet where the rest of the world are.

I wonder what the Kiwis would have done with code from say, their hackfest a couple of weeks back…

]]> By: Postmodern (postmodern) 's status on Wednesday, 09-Sep-09 18:01:47 UTC - Identi.ca http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4213 Postmodern (postmodern) 's status on Wednesday, 09-Sep-09 18:01:47 UTC - Identi.ca Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:03:46 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4213 [...] http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/ a few seconds ago from xmpp [...] [...] http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/ a few seconds ago from xmpp [...]

]]> By: Dave Bath http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4209 Dave Bath Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:03:44 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4209 It would be very interesting to get a definition of "program". Let's see... * Microsoft Office macros are embedded in some of the documents commonly found on government agency websites (ABS in particular). Are these programs? * PDF formats are executable programs (especially if you embed javascript or postscript). There are even PDF functions to sense the host operating system and decide which command line string you want to "shell out". Are these programs? * Flash? I seem to remember programming manuals for flash. * Javascript? Ditto. And some of the above have their code executed on the client. Evil persons (and I DO NOT advocate this) could still obfuscate languages like perl. You can even write Latin perl (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html) I can see the problem the agencies are trying to address, which is why Xena from naa.gov.au got shifted to sourceforge (see http://www.naa.gov.au/records-management/secure-and-store/e-preservation/at-NAA/software.aspx#section3) However, it is /extremely/ rare for tarballs to be considered "executable programs". Mind you, how about the downloadable java applet from http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/patents/search_software.shtml or http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf//web+pages/Download+Install+SuperTABLE+Software or http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/grants/apply/projects/software/_files/filsetup.exe ftp://ftp.ips.gov.au/users/asaps/ASAPS5Demo.exe (click on the link in http://www.ips.gov.au/Products_and_Services/1/1/3) and of course, the tax office's tool via http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/32234.htm http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/energyefficiency/motors/motorselector/pubs/installmsv31.exe And there's REALM, but that's Victoria http://www.ourwater.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/file/0017/52460/Install_Realm.exe It would be very interesting to get a definition of “program”. Let’s see…

* Microsoft Office macros are embedded in some of the documents commonly found on government agency websites (ABS in particular). Are these programs?

* PDF formats are executable programs (especially if you embed javascript or postscript). There are even PDF functions to sense the host operating system and decide which command line string you want to “shell out”. Are these programs?

* Flash? I seem to remember programming manuals for flash.

* Javascript? Ditto.

And some of the above have their code executed on the client.

Evil persons (and I DO NOT advocate this) could still obfuscate languages like perl. You can even write Latin perl (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html)

I can see the problem the agencies are trying to address, which is why Xena from naa.gov.au got shifted to sourceforge (see http://www.naa.gov.au/records-management/secure-and-store/e-preservation/at-NAA/software.aspx#section3)

However, it is /extremely/ rare for tarballs to be considered “executable programs”.

Mind you, how about the downloadable java applet from http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/patents/search_software.shtml

or
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf//web+pages/Download+Install+SuperTABLE+Software

or

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/grants/apply/projects/software/_files/filsetup.exe

ftp://ftp.ips.gov.au/users/asaps/ASAPS5Demo.exe (click on the link in http://www.ips.gov.au/Products_and_Services/1/1/3)

and of course, the tax office’s tool via
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/32234.htm

http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/energyefficiency/motors/motorselector/pubs/installmsv31.exe

And there’s REALM, but that’s Victoria
http://www.ourwater.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/file/0017/52460/Install_Realm.exe

]]> By: Andrew http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4206 Andrew Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:48:39 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4206 A fantastic tale! It confirms my long held view that, "If Innovators [like the OA crew] and Early Adopters do not acquaint government and the community at large with the civic potential for broadband services, then the medium may quickly become captured by interest groups wishing to control it for their own ends[eg maintaining the status quo]." (1995) The great power that OA brings to public debate in Australia is your ability to both identify/analyse the problem/policy issues and develop/implement solutions. It is inspirational to see thinking and doing happening in very short order - rather than talking, thinking, talking, wondering, then perhaps doing. Quick and accurate risk assessment is vital for the fostering of innovation - so we need to keep encouraging kids to learn the power of coding and to get stuck into it! A fantastic tale! It confirms my long held view that, “If Innovators [like the OA crew] and Early Adopters do not acquaint government and the community at large with the civic potential for broadband services, then the medium may quickly become captured by interest groups wishing to control it for their own ends[eg maintaining the status quo].” (1995)

The great power that OA brings to public debate in Australia is your ability to both identify/analyse the problem/policy issues and develop/implement solutions.

It is inspirational to see thinking and doing happening in very short order – rather than talking, thinking, talking, wondering, then perhaps doing.

Quick and accurate risk assessment is vital for the fostering of innovation – so we need to keep encouraging kids to learn the power of coding and to get stuck into it!

]]> By: Tweets that mention OpenAustralia » A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum -- Topsy.com http://blog.openaustralia.org/2009/09/09/a-funny-thing-happened-on-the-way-to-the-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-4203 Tweets that mention OpenAustralia » A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum -- Topsy.com Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:09:37 +0000 http://blog.openaustralia.org/?p=420#comment-4203 [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by John Dalton. John Dalton said: Government gets slightly freaked out by a #ruby script #gov2au submission - http://is.gd/34yeQ (via @OpenAustralia) [...] [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by John Dalton. John Dalton said: Government gets slightly freaked out by a #ruby script #gov2au submission – http://is.gd/34yeQ (via @OpenAustralia) [...]

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